Ft. Wayne Railroad Elevations 1910-1913

Find an old ROW or want to know what the name of that one tower along the EL was? Post any historical questions or comments here. Open to any era from around the Ft Wayne area. Interurbans welcome!

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Bob Durnell
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Re: Ft. Wayne Railroad Elevations 1910-1913

Post by Bob Durnell » Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:16 pm

Yes, the was Greiger Chevrolet, then DeHaven's, and now Summit City. My dad used to buy all his cars there. Grieger sold out to DeHaven sometime in the early-mid 70's and then they moved to Illinois Road. Irony of ironies, in 1988, when I bought my 1972 Chevelle, which had been through several hands, we removed the back seat and found the build sheet. Yep, built in Kansas City and delivered to Grieger's in May 1972. The melodic DeHaven Chevrolet jingle many of us grew up with was originally Grieger and had the South Clinton Street address instead Illinois Road. It took a LONG time for my childhood ears to get used to that. :lol:
The sweetest sounds in the world: A pair 567's at idle, and a non turbo 645 in run 8!

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Re: Ft. Wayne Railroad Elevations 1910-1913

Post by cjberndt » Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:10 am

Hotbox posted the 1876 map showing FWM&C (the Muncie line) as owner of the track south of Cass St. depot, and FWJ&S as owner north of the depot. A lot of maps show this. The 1916 ICC Valuation map, drawn by NYC as lessor of FW&J, shows FW&J's track ending at the PRR mainline at Junction, where it connected end-to-end with the Muncie line.

I found 1870 reports about FWJ&S building its track in Polk St. and across the canal (the future Nickel Plate mainline) at Osage St., so we know that FWJ&S owned the line from a point near Main St., north to Jackson, Mich. For reasons unknown, in 1870 FWJ&S did not connect with either PRR or GR&I, both of which were already at Junction.

I don't know whether FWM&C or FWJ&S built the track from Junction to Main St., but suspect they jointly built it when they built the track from Hugo to Junction at the same time. I don't know whether ownership of the track from Junction to Cass St. depot was transferred to FWM&C, but we know from the ICC map that it was owned by FW&J in 1916.

Beginning in Sept. 1871, FWM&C used FWJ&S's Cass St. depot, and they shared facilities in FWJ&S's 4th St. yard. It was probably more common to see FWM&C trains than FWJ&S trains on the track south of Cass St. depot, so that may explain the maps.

Craig

Steve Bryan
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Re: Ft. Wayne Railroad Elevations 1910-1913

Post by Steve Bryan » Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:46 am

Reading this thread, I got to thinking that I have never seen photos of FWM&C trains (or FWJ&S for that matter). Would they have had fancy script or very basic?

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Hotbox
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Re: Ft. Wayne Railroad Elevations 1910-1913

Post by Hotbox » Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:52 pm

cjberndt wrote: I don't know whether ownership of the track from Junction to Cass St. depot was transferred to FWM&C, but we know from the ICC map that it was owned by FW&J in 1916.


Craig

According to sources available to me, FW&J was controlled by the LSMS from 1882 until 1914, right? The Lake Erie and Western came under control of the New York Central and Hudson River RR in 1900,....And in Dec. 1914 the LSMS merged with the New York Central and Hudson River Railroad to form the New York Central Railroad..... So either way I'm sure NYC owned (or controlled) the whole shebang by 1916.

Probably some deft boardroom manipulation that we'll never know about. It would indeed be interesting to see who the specified lawful owner prior to 1900 was.

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Re: Ft. Wayne Railroad Elevations 1910-1913

Post by cjberndt » Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:25 am

This FWJ&S photo came from a guy in Hamilton, but I don't think it was taken there. I've never seen anything lettered for FWM&C.

LE&W acquired the FWM&C in 1890. LE&W was controlled through stock ownership by LS&MS/NYC 1900-1922, and was then acquired by Nickel Plate in 1923 and ceased to exist.

FW&J was leased to and operated by LS&MS/NYC 1882-1968, then by PC and Conrail until 1980, when Conrail acquired FW&J's assets.

Craig
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FtWJ&S 4-4-0 & depot.jpg

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Re: Ft. Wayne Railroad Elevations 1910-1913

Post by cjberndt » Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:30 am

Some items I found in the 1913 newspapers.

The city and county were working on a plan to straighten the St. Mary's River south of the Barthold grade separation, moving the river south to provide space for a ramp up to the proposed bridge. The March 1913 flood sent water through the underpass, flooding many properties north of the FW&J. The project was abandoned in favor of closing the underpass and making FW&J's track a flood dike.

The attached newspaper article clarifies ownership of the FW&J-LE&W track from 4th St. to the PRR at Junction. Well, sort of clarifies: LS&MS didn't own it either. FW&J owned the track. FW&J was leased to and operated by LS&MS in perpetuity. A later newspaper reported that the Board of Public Works had ordered LE&W to install crossing gates at Main St., so apparently LE&W was using FW&J's Cass-Junction track and FW&J was not.

In 1913, the City Council disapproved an ordinance ordering PRR to put an underpass at Anthony Blvd. (Walton St. in 1913). PRR's track didn't have to be raised there, and the Council wanted the tracks raised to make it possible to construct underpasses at Winter, Hanna, Lafayette and Clinton Sts. Near the close of 1913, elevation of the tracks over Wayne Trace and Anthony was being discussed.

I'll get into the 1914 newspapers and find out what happened.

Craig
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FW&J owns track to Junction.jpg

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Re: Ft. Wayne Railroad Elevations 1910-1913

Post by Hotbox » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:08 am

cjberndt wrote:Some items I found in the 1913 newspapers.

The attached newspaper article clarifies ownership of the FW&J-LE&W track from 4th St. to the PRR at Junction. Well, sort of clarifies: LS&MS didn't own it either. FW&J owned the track. FW&J was leased to and operated by LS&MS in perpetuity. A later newspaper reported that the Board of Public Works had ordered LE&W to install crossing gates at Main St., so apparently LE&W was using FW&J's Cass-Junction track and FW&J was not.


Craig

Clarifies ownership "as of the time the newspaper article was published". 1913.

This news story is an excellent smoking gun, love to know what source the Board of Public Works made their initial (erroneous) determination from?

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Re: Ft. Wayne Railroad Elevations 1910-1913

Post by Hotbox » Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:22 pm

Craig

Thought you might find the following interesting, I guess it was a preliminary part of Georger Kessler's "Master Plan" for Fort Wayne's Park and Boulevard system, depicting the grade separation at Barthold (discussed earlier in this thread) and tentative bridge across the river and tie-in to the existing grid on the South side of the river. Photo from the Riverfront Fort Wayne site.

Imagine a Fort Wayne with Barthold tied directly into Broadway.....

Image

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